[SynchroBlog] Censorship and control
Sally Coleman
sally-coleman at btconnect.com
Thu Mar 22 17:50:31 GMT 2007
Thank you Cindy and Sonja for your input
I suspect that Mike B and I living in the UK have little experience of the
type of censorship/ control some of you guys are facing; I did come across
it a little living in Texas- and was surprised at how compliant folk were
with the type of mind control tactics you are describing- this is how cults
operate not Christian Churches.
When will we learn grace, with one another, and with those around us?
Sally
-----Original Message-----
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: She's like that.... (Sonja Andrews)
2. Re: She's like that.... (David Fisher)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:08:52 -0400
From: Sonja Andrews <sonja at paxunum.org>
Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] She's like that....
To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers <synchroblog at p2ptrust.org>
Message-ID: <B3E8C6CA-F8EB-4ED7-A820-6A7FADAE8CD5 at paxunum.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I've been letting this whole situation percolate for a little.
Here are some of my thoughts on blogging and church. I'm more than a
little raw right now on this issue. In part because of empathy for
David and in part because I've got some of my own issues that I was
reprimanded for at my church. They had nothing whatsoever to do with
the Synchroblog, but I was taken to task for some writing that "may"
have gotten under people's skin because it was a little too
personal ... supposedly. I was never told who was upset or which
posts upset them ... so according to the principles in Matthew 18 I
don't consider that I need to be concerned about it.
With all of that said .... my feeling is that a personal blog is ...
um ... personal. It's full name is web log. It is considered a
journal. It is a personal journal that one is allowing others to
read. But it is, at the end of the day, personal. Unless it's a
space that is sponsored or organized by a church or ministry. What
happened to David was nothing short of censorship. The part he
didn't tell you all was that he was given the choice of staying on
board at his church if he submitted to some re-programming classes.
That is manipulative and borders on cult-like mind control. All of
this over some links ... not his own thoughts, but some links.
Sally, I agree with you that there is a tension between proper
decorum and concern for your audience. Particularly if one is in
leadership at a church. For instance, I was in leadership at my
church and I have a good idea of the posts that may have been
questionable. I've asked my counselor (Christian) to review them and
been told they are fine. I've gone the extra mile and asked for
outside counsel about my words and actions regarding my blog because
I do not want it to be a source of disharmony in my (former) church.
On the other hand, I do keep in mind that it is my personal space in
which I am allowed to express myself to the extent that I see fit.
In David's situation I think the blog issue was a straw man, a
scapegoat for some larger, more difficult tensions between their
ministry and that of the larger church they were a part of.
The question of how to hold the tension can only be answered by each
of us individually in our respective positions, churches and
contexts. As I grow further and further away from my former church I
will be more and more free to write exactly what I think about many
things that I have felt very muzzled about recently. I will continue
to be circumspect and not use names, etc. out of respect and concern
for the dignity and reputation of those who are still there. But if
we do all things with great love and swaddle them with prayer we
can't go far wrong ;-) ... I hope.
fwiw ...
pax, Sonja
On Mar 22, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Sally Coleman wrote:
> It seems we are all being challenged and stretched by the synchro blog
> conversation... David says that he's sure God is 100% in this and
> that both
> scares and excites him;
>
> - Mike says yes "She's like that"
>
> Amen
>
> But let us keep on praying for one another for wisdom and for
> protection, I
> know I am not the only one whose job could be on the line, sorry if
> that
> sounds ultra cautious- but it is a real concern....also I am a great
> believer in the mission and calling of the church no matter how
> much it
> irritates me at times, I have a number of disaffected commenter's
> who read
> and are encouraged by my blog- and hope to show that church is
> relevant to
> both faith but also the mission of God in the world... simply
> aggravating
> leaders etc is sometimes unwise... just me thinking out loud here!
>
> Having said that I also believe that the mission of God is wider
> than the
> Church, and we are called to break the box open- how on earth do we
> hold the
> two in tension????
>
> Any thoughts gratefully received!
>
> Sally
>
> -----Original Message-----
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> synchroblog-request at p2ptrust.org
> Sent: 22 March 2007 12:00
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> Subject: SynchroBlog Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: The story... (David Fisher)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:13:20 -0600
> From: "David Fisher" <DFisher at GroupPublishing.com>
> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
> To: "Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers" <synchroblog at p2ptrust.org>
> Message-ID:
> <5BC79E396981DF4CBAF708A265B195807C9866 at LVExch3.grouppublishing.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> LOL
>
> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>
> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>
> David Fisher
> Resource Consultant
> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
> Psalm 27:4
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bursell
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:57 AM
> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 09:38 -0600, David Fisher wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I commented on your post. :-)
>> Just to be clear the controversy was from the 'love' post. Isn't
>> that
> ironic?
>> Although I'm sure this most recent one would have done me in, just as
> well. ;-)
>>
>> But again, I'm excited about what God is doing. Behind all the s*
>> (% is
> God moving and that scares and excites me.
>
> She's like that. :-)
>
> -Mike.
>
>> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
>> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>>
>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>
>> David Fisher
>> Resource Consultant
>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>> Psalm 27:4
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Stone
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:56 AM
>> To: 'Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers'
>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>
>>
>> Well in that case ... I put something else up on
> http://mattstone.blogs.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org] On Behalf Of David Fisher
>> Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2007 8:46 AM
>> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>
>> Don't remove anything for me. I can be as provocative as I want now!
>>
>> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
>> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>>
>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>
>> David Fisher
>> Resource Consultant
>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>> Psalm 27:4
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bursell
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:42 PM
>> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>
>>
>> http://www.p2ptrust.org/blog/
>>
>> The post's now up.
>>
>> Please comment. I'm happy to remove things for David. Probably
>> not for
>> anyone else.
>>
>> David - if you're happy to provide more information, feel free to
>> do so.
>> It sounds like you don't want to make a fuss, but it's your call. I,
>> for one, am up for it.
>>
>> -Mike.
>>
>> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 15:27 -0600, David Fisher wrote:
>>> Hey Mike,
>>> What's your blog address again?
>>>
>>>
>>> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
>>> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>>>
>>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>>
>>> David Fisher
>>> Resource Consultant
>>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>>> Psalm 27:4
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bursell
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:27 PM
>>> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
>>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>>
>>>
>>> Correction:
>>>
>>> <a href="http://www.p2ptrust.org/blog/">Synchroblog: guilty by
>> association</a> at Mike's Musings
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 21:23 +0000, Mike Bursell wrote:
>>>> Next synchroblog: persecution? It would seem appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also going to do an emergency synchroblog now, talking about
>>>> this
> in
>>>> the abstract - not mentioning any names.
>>>>
>>>> <a href="http://www.p2ptrust.org/">Synchroblog: guilty by
>>>> association</a> at Mike's Musings
>>>>
>>>> -Mike.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 14:11 -0400, Phil Wyman wrote:
>>>>> Hey SynchroBlog Team,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's some info about David being removed from a ministry
>>>>> position
>>>>> because he was connected to us. Yikes! Anyway, he's doing fine,
> but
>>>>> it makes you think doesn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "David Fisher" <DFisher at GroupPublishing.com>
>>>>>> Date: March 20, 2007 11:38:34 AM EDT
>>>>>> To: "Phil Wyman" <pastorphil at salemgathering.com>
>>>>>> Subject: The story...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>>> Feel free to pass this to the other synchrobloggers. I deleted
> the
>>>>>> previous emails and don't have it to send to everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know (and how I found out about you and your story) I was
>>>>>> having some difficulty with the church I was involved in. We had
>>>>>> been running the second service "Revolution" geared initially
> toward
>>>>>> College and young adults. Although that was still pretty much
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> demographic, the vision expanded to begin to reach more 'fringe'
>>>>>> groups in our area. Fort Collins is very spiritual but not very
>>>>>> Christian. Although not like where you are I'm sure!
>>>>>> We said and did something's on our blog...mostly questioning
> church
>>>>>> hierarchy and women not being in leadership that some people at
> the
>>>>>> first service didn't like. Oh, and our heart to reach the
>>>>>> Gay/Lesbian community with love; rather than throw scripture at
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> So we shut down our original blog to keep the peace within the
>>>>>> ranks. Our focus was on Revolution and not the blog world
>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>> Well, my wife is the blog queen and she had several people ask
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> to do something underground and maintain the relationships we had
>>>>>> with them. I also was posting on her blog, but just started my
> own
>>>>>> when the other one shut down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problems still lingered from a blog that no longer existed
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> to their credit, the leadership of the church defended us
> mightily.
>>>>>> Until Thursday...
>>>>>> Apparently someone was digging for us because they found my blog,
>>>>>> and my wife's underground blog! I felt like a kid with his hand
> in
>>>>>> the cookie jar, but at the same time, it was obvious that someone
>>>>>> had it out for us.
>>>>>> I sat in a coffee shop with the staff while they said that they
> love
>>>>>> us and were the best leaders they have, but they want us to
>>>>>> temporarily step down from Revolution so they can steer the ship
> in
>>>>>> the right direction.
>>>>>> They felt that the links I had on my blog (the synchroblog links)
>>>>>> among some comments I had made about the ineffectiveness of the
>>>>>> Evangelical Church were not what a leader should do. 150
>>>>>> pages of
>>>>>> blog copy and they found 4 or 5 things they didn't like and none
> of
>>>>>> them were doctrinal or theological statements.
>>>>>> So that night I prayed and talked to my wife. We knew this was
>>>>>> coming anyway, but I was expecting this summer, not last
>>>>>> Thursday!
>>>>>> And under less duress.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We figured it was time to get out. So I told the head pastor on
>>>>>> Friday that we will step down and make an easy transition and we
>>>>>> will never come back. I wasn't mad, but I knew in order to
> preserve
>>>>>> the unity of the church, I couldn't stick around. And of course,
>>>>>> Revolution needed to become Revolution and follow what God had
> given
>>>>>> us. He agreed and thru some strange conversations trying to hash
>>>>>> everything out, Sunday we both made the announcement that we have
>>>>>> mutually agreed that I and Makeesha would step down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The College Service will turn into a normal young adult
> evangelical
>>>>>> right wing charismatic service, and Revolution will go to
>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>> the heck it's supposed to be.
>>>>>> www.betherevolution.wordpress.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now it's the awkwardness of people from the first Revolution
> trying
>>>>>> to find out where they land. Most are with us. A few are with
> them
>>>>>> (yuck..us versus them) and many will still try and do both, which
> is
>>>>>> okay, because they'll find out which one fits their heart the
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> as we all move forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hate the emotions involved in all this, but I am very excited
> for
>>>>>> what God is doing and for our future of Revolution and the
>>>>>> community...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Fisher
>>>>>> Resource Consultant
>>>>>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>>>>>> Psalm 27:4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check by Connectweb.net Virus / Spam scanner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SynchroBlog mailing list
>>>>> SynchroBlog at p2ptrust.org
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:42:20 -0600
From: "David Fisher" <DFisher at GroupPublishing.com>
Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] She's like that....
To: "Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers" <synchroblog at p2ptrust.org>
Message-ID:
<5BC79E396981DF4CBAF708A265B195807C9877 at LVExch3.grouppublishing.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi ya'all,
Good insight.
I'm kind of reminded of Luther where he desperately wanted to stay within
the Church, but also could not compromise his convictions.
Eventually he was forced to leave.
It's certainly not that dramatic, but Makeesha and I tried very hard for 8
months to try and make it work because we love the church we were at and we
felt like we had something to offer...and they had something to offer us.
But in the end, we were asked to step down so they could right the ship and
then they could restore us back to leadership. But our convictions were
strong, and the tension among some to the attendees of the main service were
so much a matter of conscience that staying would mean we would have to
compromise everything we feel like God is calling us to do, and we would
still be causing problems simply because we were still there 'helping out'.
There are a few who came to Revolution because it was a ministry of Third
Day, but most - the people who attached ourselves to us - have no interest
or care in Third Day, but cared deeply about the vision of Revolution, as
they share the same heartbeat. Those people were our greatest concern. It
would have been a disservice to them if we stuck around.
It's really strange to think of us as leaders in this respect (although
we've always known it), but were learning to humbly embrace it and move
forward.
It IS bigger than the synchroblog. It's how we view our faith, our
scripture, and our walk with God...and our worldview.
The head pastor said that I could write whatever I wanted to if I wasn't a
leader, but as a leader, I was censored. To me that doesn't make sense. As
a leader, shouldn't I want to challenge and encourage dialogue with people
who think differently than me? Shouldn't I encourage others to do the same?
Isn't God big enough for that?
And therein lies one fundamental difference between the modern church I was
a part of, and the post-modern church Revolution is becoming.
This 'revolution' is happening all over the world. I'm glad to be a part of
it.
Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
<http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
"The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
David Fisher
Resource Consultant
1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
Psalm 27:4
-----Original Message-----
From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
[mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Sonja Andrews
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:09 AM
To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] She's like that....
I've been letting this whole situation percolate for a little.
Here are some of my thoughts on blogging and church. I'm more than a
little raw right now on this issue. In part because of empathy for
David and in part because I've got some of my own issues that I was
reprimanded for at my church. They had nothing whatsoever to do with
the Synchroblog, but I was taken to task for some writing that "may"
have gotten under people's skin because it was a little too
personal ... supposedly. I was never told who was upset or which
posts upset them ... so according to the principles in Matthew 18 I
don't consider that I need to be concerned about it.
With all of that said .... my feeling is that a personal blog is ...
um ... personal. It's full name is web log. It is considered a
journal. It is a personal journal that one is allowing others to
read. But it is, at the end of the day, personal. Unless it's a
space that is sponsored or organized by a church or ministry. What
happened to David was nothing short of censorship. The part he
didn't tell you all was that he was given the choice of staying on
board at his church if he submitted to some re-programming classes.
That is manipulative and borders on cult-like mind control. All of
this over some links ... not his own thoughts, but some links.
Sally, I agree with you that there is a tension between proper
decorum and concern for your audience. Particularly if one is in
leadership at a church. For instance, I was in leadership at my
church and I have a good idea of the posts that may have been
questionable. I've asked my counselor (Christian) to review them and
been told they are fine. I've gone the extra mile and asked for
outside counsel about my words and actions regarding my blog because
I do not want it to be a source of disharmony in my (former) church.
On the other hand, I do keep in mind that it is my personal space in
which I am allowed to express myself to the extent that I see fit.
In David's situation I think the blog issue was a straw man, a
scapegoat for some larger, more difficult tensions between their
ministry and that of the larger church they were a part of.
The question of how to hold the tension can only be answered by each
of us individually in our respective positions, churches and
contexts. As I grow further and further away from my former church I
will be more and more free to write exactly what I think about many
things that I have felt very muzzled about recently. I will continue
to be circumspect and not use names, etc. out of respect and concern
for the dignity and reputation of those who are still there. But if
we do all things with great love and swaddle them with prayer we
can't go far wrong ;-) ... I hope.
fwiw ...
pax, Sonja
On Mar 22, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Sally Coleman wrote:
> It seems we are all being challenged and stretched by the synchro blog
> conversation... David says that he's sure God is 100% in this and
> that both
> scares and excites him;
>
> - Mike says yes "She's like that"
>
> Amen
>
> But let us keep on praying for one another for wisdom and for
> protection, I
> know I am not the only one whose job could be on the line, sorry if
> that
> sounds ultra cautious- but it is a real concern....also I am a great
> believer in the mission and calling of the church no matter how
> much it
> irritates me at times, I have a number of disaffected commenter's
> who read
> and are encouraged by my blog- and hope to show that church is
> relevant to
> both faith but also the mission of God in the world... simply
> aggravating
> leaders etc is sometimes unwise... just me thinking out loud here!
>
> Having said that I also believe that the mission of God is wider
> than the
> Church, and we are called to break the box open- how on earth do we
> hold the
> two in tension????
>
> Any thoughts gratefully received!
>
> Sally
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org] On Behalf Of
> synchroblog-request at p2ptrust.org
> Sent: 22 March 2007 12:00
> To: synchroblog at p2ptrust.org
> Subject: SynchroBlog Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1
>
> Send SynchroBlog mailing list submissions to
> synchroblog at p2ptrust.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://p2ptrust.org/mailman/listinfo/synchroblog_p2ptrust.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> synchroblog-request at p2ptrust.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> synchroblog-owner at p2ptrust.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of SynchroBlog digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: The story... (David Fisher)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:13:20 -0600
> From: "David Fisher" <DFisher at GroupPublishing.com>
> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
> To: "Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers" <synchroblog at p2ptrust.org>
> Message-ID:
> <5BC79E396981DF4CBAF708A265B195807C9866 at LVExch3.grouppublishing.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> LOL
>
> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>
> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>
> David Fisher
> Resource Consultant
> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
> Psalm 27:4
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bursell
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:57 AM
> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 09:38 -0600, David Fisher wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I commented on your post. :-)
>> Just to be clear the controversy was from the 'love' post. Isn't
>> that
> ironic?
>> Although I'm sure this most recent one would have done me in, just as
> well. ;-)
>>
>> But again, I'm excited about what God is doing. Behind all the s*
>> (% is
> God moving and that scares and excites me.
>
> She's like that. :-)
>
> -Mike.
>
>> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
>> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>>
>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>
>> David Fisher
>> Resource Consultant
>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>> Psalm 27:4
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Stone
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:56 AM
>> To: 'Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers'
>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>
>>
>> Well in that case ... I put something else up on
> http://mattstone.blogs.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org] On Behalf Of David Fisher
>> Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2007 8:46 AM
>> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>
>> Don't remove anything for me. I can be as provocative as I want now!
>>
>> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
>> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>>
>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>
>> David Fisher
>> Resource Consultant
>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>> Psalm 27:4
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bursell
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:42 PM
>> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>
>>
>> http://www.p2ptrust.org/blog/
>>
>> The post's now up.
>>
>> Please comment. I'm happy to remove things for David. Probably
>> not for
>> anyone else.
>>
>> David - if you're happy to provide more information, feel free to
>> do so.
>> It sounds like you don't want to make a fuss, but it's your call. I,
>> for one, am up for it.
>>
>> -Mike.
>>
>> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 15:27 -0600, David Fisher wrote:
>>> Hey Mike,
>>> What's your blog address again?
>>>
>>>
>>> Our AWARD winning HANDS ON BIBLE here:
>>> <http://www.group.com/handsonbible>
>>>
>>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>>
>>> David Fisher
>>> Resource Consultant
>>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>>> Psalm 27:4
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org
>>> [mailto:synchroblog-bounces at p2ptrust.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bursell
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:27 PM
>>> To: Mailing list for the SynchroBloggers
>>> Subject: Re: [SynchroBlog] Fwd: The story...
>>>
>>>
>>> Correction:
>>>
>>> <a href="http://www.p2ptrust.org/blog/">Synchroblog: guilty by
>> association</a> at Mike's Musings
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 21:23 +0000, Mike Bursell wrote:
>>>> Next synchroblog: persecution? It would seem appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also going to do an emergency synchroblog now, talking about
>>>> this
> in
>>>> the abstract - not mentioning any names.
>>>>
>>>> <a href="http://www.p2ptrust.org/">Synchroblog: guilty by
>>>> association</a> at Mike's Musings
>>>>
>>>> -Mike.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 14:11 -0400, Phil Wyman wrote:
>>>>> Hey SynchroBlog Team,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's some info about David being removed from a ministry
>>>>> position
>>>>> because he was connected to us. Yikes! Anyway, he's doing fine,
> but
>>>>> it makes you think doesn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "David Fisher" <DFisher at GroupPublishing.com>
>>>>>> Date: March 20, 2007 11:38:34 AM EDT
>>>>>> To: "Phil Wyman" <pastorphil at salemgathering.com>
>>>>>> Subject: The story...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>>> Feel free to pass this to the other synchrobloggers. I deleted
> the
>>>>>> previous emails and don't have it to send to everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know (and how I found out about you and your story) I was
>>>>>> having some difficulty with the church I was involved in. We had
>>>>>> been running the second service "Revolution" geared initially
> toward
>>>>>> College and young adults. Although that was still pretty much
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> demographic, the vision expanded to begin to reach more 'fringe'
>>>>>> groups in our area. Fort Collins is very spiritual but not very
>>>>>> Christian. Although not like where you are I'm sure!
>>>>>> We said and did something's on our blog...mostly questioning
> church
>>>>>> hierarchy and women not being in leadership that some people at
> the
>>>>>> first service didn't like. Oh, and our heart to reach the
>>>>>> Gay/Lesbian community with love; rather than throw scripture at
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> So we shut down our original blog to keep the peace within the
>>>>>> ranks. Our focus was on Revolution and not the blog world
>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>> Well, my wife is the blog queen and she had several people ask
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> to do something underground and maintain the relationships we had
>>>>>> with them. I also was posting on her blog, but just started my
> own
>>>>>> when the other one shut down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problems still lingered from a blog that no longer existed
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> to their credit, the leadership of the church defended us
> mightily.
>>>>>> Until Thursday...
>>>>>> Apparently someone was digging for us because they found my blog,
>>>>>> and my wife's underground blog! I felt like a kid with his hand
> in
>>>>>> the cookie jar, but at the same time, it was obvious that someone
>>>>>> had it out for us.
>>>>>> I sat in a coffee shop with the staff while they said that they
> love
>>>>>> us and were the best leaders they have, but they want us to
>>>>>> temporarily step down from Revolution so they can steer the ship
> in
>>>>>> the right direction.
>>>>>> They felt that the links I had on my blog (the synchroblog links)
>>>>>> among some comments I had made about the ineffectiveness of the
>>>>>> Evangelical Church were not what a leader should do. 150
>>>>>> pages of
>>>>>> blog copy and they found 4 or 5 things they didn't like and none
> of
>>>>>> them were doctrinal or theological statements.
>>>>>> So that night I prayed and talked to my wife. We knew this was
>>>>>> coming anyway, but I was expecting this summer, not last
>>>>>> Thursday!
>>>>>> And under less duress.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We figured it was time to get out. So I told the head pastor on
>>>>>> Friday that we will step down and make an easy transition and we
>>>>>> will never come back. I wasn't mad, but I knew in order to
> preserve
>>>>>> the unity of the church, I couldn't stick around. And of course,
>>>>>> Revolution needed to become Revolution and follow what God had
> given
>>>>>> us. He agreed and thru some strange conversations trying to hash
>>>>>> everything out, Sunday we both made the announcement that we have
>>>>>> mutually agreed that I and Makeesha would step down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The College Service will turn into a normal young adult
> evangelical
>>>>>> right wing charismatic service, and Revolution will go to
>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>> the heck it's supposed to be.
>>>>>> www.betherevolution.wordpress.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now it's the awkwardness of people from the first Revolution
> trying
>>>>>> to find out where they land. Most are with us. A few are with
> them
>>>>>> (yuck..us versus them) and many will still try and do both, which
> is
>>>>>> okay, because they'll find out which one fits their heart the
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> as we all move forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hate the emotions involved in all this, but I am very excited
> for
>>>>>> what God is doing and for our future of Revolution and the
>>>>>> community...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The way out is to be led by way out people." Mike Frost
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Fisher
>>>>>> Resource Consultant
>>>>>> 1-800-526-0404 ext 4337
>>>>>> Psalm 27:4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check by Connectweb.net Virus / Spam scanner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SynchroBlog mailing list
>>>>> SynchroBlog at p2ptrust.org
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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